Data Hurdles

Data Hurdles_ Top MDM Platforms of 2025 – 2024_10_10 09_19 CDT – Recording
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Chris Detzel: [00:00:00] Hello, data enthusiasts. This is Chris Detzel and I'm Michael Burke. Welcome to Data Hurdles. ~We are your gateway into the intricate world of data or AI, machine learning, big data, and social justice intercept, expect thought provoking discussions, captivating stories, and insights from experts all across the industries, as we explore the unexpected ways data impacts our lives.~

So get ready to be informed. Inspired and excited about the future of data. Let's conquer these data hurdles together. ~ ~ All right. Welcome to another data hurdles. I'm Chris Detzel and

Mike: I'm Michael Burke. How you doing, Chris?

Chris Detzel: Pretty good, man. How about you?

Mike: Doing really well. Yeah. Enjoying this beautiful day. It's getting colder here in New England. So starting to really feel the fall weather. We got our pumpkin. Excited to start the Halloween festivities soon.

Chris Detzel: It's funny you say that and we do have a guest today and I'll introduce him here shortly. But my boss, so I work at zoom info now and my boss was telling me that The last couple of years he's got pumpkins him and his wife. I guess they're in the They live in the woods. They live in connecticut or whatever He was telling me and you could see in his video that three bears Mama bear and two younger bears came and got his pumpkins on his [00:01:00] porch ~ ~That's crazy anyways so we have special guest rohit verma rohit.

How are you?

Rohit Singh Verma: Absolutely fine chris and hi michael. That's been a pleasure that you have invited me in this podcast Really excited about it

Chris Detzel: But we're certainly excited and today the topic is going to be and I'm very interested in this and I know Michael is to around a master data management vendors and the top 10.

Is that right?

Rohit Singh Verma: Absolutely. So I've been working in this space from last 20 years. especially in the master data management domain. And I have come across many MDM tools, like more than, 2025 tools and overall, like with my experience and how you know, I've been implemented them. I've spoken to customers, I've spoken to analyst.

So with my experience, I have come across that. What are the top 10 master data management tools which are there in the industry right now? Let's say if Somebody wants to implement MDM then [00:02:00] this particular analysis will be very helpful for them.

Chris Detzel: Great And so before we get started you tell us a little bit About you and your background and kind of the you know your history But then help us understand what when you talk about master data management what that means If that's we'll go there and then we'll start talking about, you know The vendors and things like that if that's fair

Rohit Singh Verma: So as I mentioned, like almost 20 years back, I've started my journey in I.

T. sector and the first few projects were in master data management. So I was very fortunate enough to, use this technology right from the start and gradually I built it up. I worked across multiple domains. I started with finance domain and gradually worked into detail manufacturing C. P. G. So almost 56 domains.

I have deep experience. Then I came also across that, master data management, especially when you talk about MDM it doesn't only specifically for one particular domain, you can do the master for customers, you can do the masters for products, suppliers, locations, reference 360, there's so many things you can do.

[00:03:00] So with overall in my journey, I have been very fortunate to touch upon all these implementations. So as I just explained that, in the last 20 years, The master data management has been very close to me. And apart from that, I work on product information management, data governance, data integration.

So now working as a data leader, as a thought leader and as a data practice head for envision solutions. And before that I have work with conglomerates like TCS Cofords, Sapient, Capgemini. So a lot of big companies I worked across. And as I just told you that, being fortunate enough To spend so much time in this technology.

And that's why today I'm in a position to tell you that which are the top 10 MDM tools. And as all, you also asked me that, what is master data management? Yeah, basically it's very simple that whenever you're talking about a master data management, you're talking about a centralized data at one place, which you can rely, which.

For which your organization can take decisions, and obviously it doesn't talk about [00:04:00] transaction data. It is majorly about the master of data, which is more of a dimensional data. And let me just give you an example. Suppose if you're going to a shopping place and you want a loyalty points, for to award that loyalty points.

It's very important for the your organization to understand who's Chris Tassel, who's Michael Burke. Till the time they don't understand your customer dynamics, like what kind of your personalizations, like what kind of preferences you have, what is your your transaction history.

Let's say if you have been shopping for one particular place from last 10 years and so that really that really plays a huge role where that customer is so loyal to you. So in order to avoid that point, it's very important that they understand. That this is my customer. This is the phone number.

This is the email address. This is the postal code. This is the address. This is the birthday date. This is the the major information so that they can give you more personalized offers. They can give you loyalty points. So that's. That can only happen when you have the right kind of customer [00:05:00] data.

And that happens only when you have the master data management technology, because sometimes there are so many duplicates, so many redundancy is there in data. So unless you clean them, unless you have the highest quality, you won't be able to get the right kind of master data. Similar thing happens on the product side.

Let's say you have a product repository. You may call the same product with different names. If a product is being supplied by multiple suppliers, They may give them different names in their repositories. But ultimately, when it comes to the centralized layer, the system should be able to recognize this is the same product.

This is the barcode. This is the unique identifier. And that can only happen when you have a product master data management. You will have the correct image associated with it. You will have the correct description associated with it. And you know that the image. The description plays a huge role when we purchase any product.

So that can only happen when you have the right technology sitting behind you. So that is, in a nutshell, I've explained to you what is master data management.

Mike: So Rohit, and this is really [00:06:00] for our listeners as well, but in your opinion, how far does master data management go in the ecosystem, right? We're talking about retail today, products as an example.

Are we extending this to supply chain? Is this managing vendors of vendors? How much is involved in master data management? Or are we really just talking about customers or products as it is to the retailer?

Rohit Singh Verma: Yeah. So as I explained to you, when we talk about master data management, we talk about multiple domains.

So customer master has already explained. But in your case, as you asked that apart from product master, what Else we can do in supplier master. So there is a dedicated supplier master or vendor master domain available in master data management technology through which you manage your suppliers also because if you are Having multiple suppliers like in a big manufacturing company or a big retail company You will have a lot of suppliers in order to manage them in order to manage the complete information provided by them You need to have a centralized master data management [00:07:00] system which can do that So when you're implementing MDM with any of the, big tools, which we'll talk about, you will have the supplier master, you will have the product master, you will have the customer master and you can make that 360 degree relationship out of them and can view also that, this product is purchased by this customer.

It is coming from this particular supplier.

Mike: And so really. Master data management, even though I think and probably for good reason, a lot of people use product or customer as examples to describe it, but it can extend to almost anything that has structured data.

Rohit Singh Verma: Absolutely. Absolutely. ~ ~So as far as it is structured and as you correctly explained, it can be it can go beyond to any other domain.

So this is a concept, which is, and it is not restricted to a particular domain.

Chris Detzel: I have so many other questions, but I feel like 10 is a lot of vendors. So Let's get Made of this and before I will say this because I think it's important i've read some gartner reports in the past around mdm and implementations of mdm and one of the [00:08:00] stats that malcolm hawker mentioned when he used to be at Now at an mdm vendor, but he was at gartner analyst and he said 75 of mdm implementations fail and my hope is during this conversation we hear less of that and we find more of implementations of mdm are not failing because You know if that's and it takes a really long time to implement 9 12 18 24 months sometimes And And you know what some MDM vendors from my experience have tried to do is say hey Here's the first milestone of what an MDM implementation looks like, right?

So that the customer understands the value and that is still taking a long time to implement the whole thing You know and so my thinking and hope is that during this conversation we hear Some of that's changing and because maybe even of ai and things like that. Maybe it's not I don't know That's why i'm excited to listen to you because you are the expert.

So [00:09:00] let's go. Let's Yeah, let's do it.

Mike: And also, Rohit, as we jump into this, because I know a lot of people when they hear best of, especially CDOs, they immediately have their guard up, right? Yeah. A little bit. I would love for us to dive into, As we talk about best of who is this really best for, right?

If we can dive a little bit deeper into, the difference between a retail store and an insurance company, they're gonna have completely different needs, completely different implementation cycles, right? Absolutely. Excellent. Excited for this. This is gonna be great. Let's take, let's kick it off.

Rohit Singh Verma: Yeah, definitely. As you both highlighted, you know that there are no, I would say, there are so many MDM tools right now there in the industry. It's a clutter, but there are no good. There are no bads. Completely depends upon customers requirement. If there is a requirement, as we said, you know that the retailer needs a master data management tool, the whole dynamics of choosing MDM changes.

Similarly, if a finance guy, needs a master data management, again, the requirement completely changes. The parameter will change [00:10:00] and terminologies will change. And as per their requirements, some of that vendor may be the top, which may not be the top in retail. So it's completely depends. From your requirement to requirement.

But this is an assessment, which has which I have done as a overall assessment, considering, multiple industries, a particular MDM, which fits into multiple domains, I can do the customer master, it can do the product master, it can fit into any domain, and largely how customer have perceived that product, how users are talking about how even you know, people who are working on it.

Those technologies how they are feeling about the product. So considering that I made a small matrix that will tell you that, which are the top leaders in the master data management technology. If you don't have any questions furthermore, then can we start?

Chris Detzel: Yeah, let's do it and before we do start We do have a presentation that we're not going to show on this video.

But what we will do Is put it out on our main website once this episode is on and then we'll put the link to [00:11:00] the powerpoint also on Our youtube channel, so you'll have access as a read kind of view and things like that, rohe

Rohit Singh Verma: Absolutely. Absolutely. You're right. Let's get started ~ ~Sure.

So as I just explained, I'll just repeat that before talking about any MDM tool here in this analysis, I want to focus on what are the evaluation criteria? What are the things which I've considered? Accordingly, I have just all these tools. So first of all, it should have the multi domain capability.

It should do the It should have the capability of doing any kind of a domain, whether it's customer, product, supplier, location, any domain. Second, it should have some of the core capabilities and features which we compare in a typical MDM tool. Then nowadays we talk about artificial intelligence. So are you doing the artificial intelligence enablement or not?

So that's very important criteria. Then some of the tools have data governance also inbuilt. So that's again a feature which is very much required by the customer these days. [00:12:00] So I'm considering that also that if you have that in your capability, then definitely gives you more marks.

Similarly, the kind of architecture which you have, the kind of styles you adopt for any particular MDM implementations and overall, what is the total cost of ownership, the vendor market reach and the vendor integrity. These are the some of the top parameters through which I have judged. And accordingly, I have made a list of top 10 MDM tools.

I'll start with Number one tool which is there in my list. I'm not going from 10 to 1. I'm going from 1 to 10 there are no surprises as such that you're gonna spoil it

Chris Detzel: already

Rohit Singh Verma: Yeah, I know that ~ ~So as I already told you that there is no ranking as such but yeah For some of them for some of the domains Or some of the verticals, even the number 10 can be the number one, so there are no rankings, but yeah, overall from this evaluation criteria is what I just explained.

I have made a list. And as for me, the number one of the MDM tool, which is widely accepted right now [00:13:00] is Informatica. Informatica definitely, sorry. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, in terms of strengths, if I talk about, I'll just all the tools, what are their strengths and what are their weaknesses?

So if you talk about Informatica, especially their multi domain MDM offering, that is very powerful, especially with the advent of the IDMC, which they have just launched, and they're totally gone on cloud right now, which is a very big plus point in the industry that now they have the complete cloud offering.

And with IDMC, they bring the complete end to end data integration. They have the power center enabled, which is the ATL, which they have the data governance, which were earlier called as action and the MDM and plus also the product part brought up 360 part also is something which they are trying to get into the IDMC.

So that's why I feel. That with this IDMC offering right now, Informatica is the leader in this category. And apart from that, I feel that they're very strong in marketing. That also really matters because marketing helps in your reach. You're more and more customers get aware [00:14:00] about your technology.

And also the SI network, the system integration network for Informatica is much, much bigger than any other MDM tool. That's why, most people have access to that tool. And apart from that they have very good reach in different regions. There are particular regions like, North America, Europe, where everybody's there, but Middle East and Saudi is some booming right now in MDM, but not many MDM players are able to capitalize that market where Informatica is having almost 80 percent of the market share.

So it really matters that how you are penetrating, how you are. Actually getting your market share and yeah, but I won't say that they are perfect. They're 10 or 10 I would give them probably 10 because I still feel that there are some gaps Especially when you talk about idmc the cloud offering the supplier master that is still not there because informatica p360 Which was their higher product, you know that has been doing exceedingly well in their on premise and cloud But when you are talking about the integration with idmc that's still not there and that's why most people in retail You know, when they're talking [00:15:00] about product master and I D.

M. C. They feel a little disappointed that is not there. So I feel that if that can also be added in this complete I. D. M. C. Then informatica will have a 10 out of 10 ratings. So yeah, that's my view on Informatica. Any questions, Chris? Yeah,

Mike: I was just going to jump in too. If you think of Informatica too, I think big, right?

You are handling massive enterprise ecosystems, right? If you're a small to medium sized business, I would say if you have under, I don't know, let's just say a couple hundred million records, this probably isn't big. The best tool for you because it's also complex. I don't think I don't think anyone Here says, informatica is an easy tool to run and manage it takes time and expertise Thankfully, there's a lot of experts out there because it's popular ~ ~first the other thing with informatica this is my own personal feedback and my information is a bit dated, but I think that Informatica has an amazing [00:16:00] on prem offering and their cloud offering.

Although they are catching up and they're picking up traction, which is great. They're still behind on their features because they have a massive amount of ecosystem to migrate. And that is incredibly complex. So you're dealing with a product that if you have an on prem ecosystem, I think it's a no brainer if you're a big company.

If you're moving to the cloud, like everything, there's some tradeoffs there. And what's really important to you in your cloud ecosystem?

Rohit Singh Verma: Absolutely. I agree with you that it's not a very easy interface, I would say. But yeah, with IDMC, with artificial intelligence, especially the Clare engine, which they've introduced, They have gone for a no code and low code kind of thing that you can actually, do the verbal, just write the English and they'll make a mapping for you.

They'll do the matching for you. So they're improving definitely, but yeah, it's going to take more time in order to get more maturity on the cloud, but yeah, that's there. So I agree with you, Michael, that although Informatica is big, but yes, it is not for those who [00:17:00] have just started their MDM journey. Who have a limited pocket size and they're just exploring.

So yeah, it's majorly for those people who are Who have good budgets and also little mature toward the mdm implementations.

Chris Detzel: I think you

Rohit Singh Verma: have good budgets for

Chris Detzel: mdm in general ~ ~Companies the only thing I would say is, Things I've heard from a Informatica standpoint is, if you had their on prem and you, and they're pushing people to go to the cloud, companies, not necessarily all of them, but a lot of them, it's like a whole new implementation.

So you have to start over. So you are seeing, and I've seen this companies now reevaluate what they have since they're like, okay, I don't want to necessarily go with Informatica, maybe I do, but maybe I want to go with best in class, from a SAS standpoint. And so they are looking at the other vendors to do that.

Cause I've seen companies go from one to the other. As a matter of fact, I've done some case studies But yeah, no, I agree with you like it's still the big [00:18:00] gorilla, you know It's still taking the mark sharing. They're all like the point you made. They're in the middle east They're I mean they have 80 of that.

There's really nobody that's competing with them. No one. Yeah Which I think is crazy, so very good points really appreciate that

Rohit Singh Verma: Absolutely. So let's go to our number two. So I've also experienced that this particular tool, especially in the product master is exceedingly well personally done some implementation and that the kind of ease the operations they have.

It's really remarkable. And the name of the tool is stable, step MDM ~ ~and widely known in North America and Europe. People know this technology. And if you're going for a product master implementation, Yeah. Then I would say that has, very good sound technology. But as I explained that since the perception is more on product master.

So sometimes people who are looking for a customer master. Then they may go beyond Stevo. They may look for Informatica. So although they have the multi domain MDM offering, if you go [00:19:00] about their solutioning they have the master for customer. They have the master for product supplier location.

Everything is there, but it's the perception in the market right now that if you're looking for a product master, if you're looking for a payment, go for Stevo. If you're looking for a customer master, go for Informatica. So that's there, probably their marketing also needs to play a role. But yes, definitely in terms of rankings, Stevo is doing great.

The leadership is excellent, especially around their domain expertise and CPG retail travel and hospitality is exceedingly well. And right now with their SaaS offering, they have a very good product like and also the artificial intelligence is also coming into play. So I would say that Stevo definitely is a very strong competitor in this space.

But as I explained that in terms of their weaknesses, the perception ~ ~We have for about that steve book and only do product master that is Something where they need to work more especially margaret needs to you know Do more on that we are there in customer master as well And also as I explained for informatica that for middle eastern [00:20:00] and saudi They are not there as steve So steve has to do some marketing activity some sales activity strong si network in saudi and Middle East because North America and Europe is completely saturated right now.

Everybody knows that, if you're looking for MDM, these are the tools, but what is the, whereas the new market is Saudi, the new market is. Middle East. And if your name is not known over there, then certainly you know that you're losing your market share. Although you have the beautiful tool, you have the wonderful tool, but still you need to do more efforts so that people know about the technology and they start using it.

Yeah, these are the some of the things. Some of our analysis about civil. Any questions, Chris Michael?

Mike: Yeah, I think with Siebel you're, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but my perspective was always that you're buying into the Oracle cloud and you probably have a much higher. Likelihood of adopting the product if you're already in the Oracle ecosystem.

Rohit Singh Verma: Yeah, correct. If you're there in the Oracle ecosystem, then definitely it's a plus point. But now even if [00:21:00] you are there and any other using any other databases system is still adaptable, but yes. Yeah.

Chris Detzel: So I just have some dumb questions maybe, but one, are they in all three clouds when you think of and then.

Why would you pick them over, other events? These vendors are gonna be pissed, no, why is it what stands makes them stand apart from? Because I feel like number one is obviously Informatica, but The rest is all about opinion. It feels because

Rohit Singh Verma: this is absolutely see there is a huge clutter as we go about the list You will see you know, these are the names which are very neck to neck.

There is hardly a point separation If I have to talk about one to ten Everybody is around, eight out of 10 or nine out of 10, probably in points differences there. It completely depends upon the kind of industry in which you are operating, the kind of features which you're looking at.

So it really differs, but overall, if you see about the criterias, which I mentioned, [00:22:00] as per that, you will see these tools are, Although neck to neck each other, but still beating each other by a little bit of margins. So as I explained it, why Stevo is rated highly is majorly because they're scoring too good in product master.

The product master capability is actually very good. And that's why they got more marks. Because if I compare with other tools that good in a customer master, they're good in product master. Some tools are there, they're doing 15 customer, 15 product master, but there are some tools. Which are doing average in other domains, but exceeding in one particular domain.

So if you have expertise in one particular thing, then that gives you an edge because customers start trusting you. And when customers start trusting you for any one particular domain then your reach starts getting bigger to the existing customer. Only you can start repitching that, Hey, I've now done, I'm into customer master also, but that's how it works.

So probably because of the strong domain expertise and product master, They are little ahead, not much [00:23:00] ahead, little ahead. Not

Mike: only that, Tetzel, but like, when you think about your master data management product. There's a huge amount of hierarchy that is really complex to manage. And I think Siebel does do a really good job at that out of the box.

They've got expertise in that area. In addition to that, when you think about product hierarchy and management, you're not just building this as an MDM as a standalone tool, you're integrating in with your CRM, with your ERP. ~ ~And if you're in the Oracle ecosystem and you already have that set up, You just have like instant connection.

I, I don't ever want to say plug and play cause it never is, but it's a heck of a lot easier. I wish you could

Chris Detzel: just plug it in and then boom, it just comes up.

Mike: You think about it, like how many times when deploying an MDM ecosystem, do you have to plug into a Salesforce where it's all custom features and functions, and you're now mixing a lot of complexity in how you standardize.

And I think that's one thing with the product master that Siebel does well standardization [00:24:00] across the oracle ecosystem

Chris Detzel: Do they so and this could be for all the questions is when I think of a good mdm You know, I think of something that can connect to these business systems somewhat easily, right?

And you have these companies looking at low code no code ways, look working with like folks like Orkado and other systems to, to build those integrations. But, it's all about integrations, right? The third party data, first party data, and all of these things, I think, because you start doing that and which, I think a lot of these are, that's what MDM is trying to get that golden record and the best clean, crisp data that you can,

Rohit Singh Verma: that's a good that is the like I would say, one of the most important activity for any MDM should be able to integrate with, third party systems. If you talk about customer master, especially that is verification. You would see, you need to have the integration with the third party.

Similarly for product data. If you're looking for a global identifiers, you again need a third party integration. So that is something [00:25:00] which is essential. So that is important. I think most of the tools have that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. ~ ~All right. So let's go in. This list is a very strong offerings on customer master.

Very good in artificial intelligence. The cloud offering is excellent. You will see them a hugely popular tool and the marketing is especially very good. This name, the tool name is prophecy. Prophecy is a very good tool. And it was earlier built on Microsoft technology. It was a rapper.

But now they have actually done a lot of work on their research and development. And right now, one of the top tools and I've seen the customers are very happy customers. The integrations are really strong. Especially around if you're looking for a customer master, then absolutely excellent tool.

But yeah, I still feel that especially they need to work on their product master strategy. So as I told you that Stebo has excellent and marks and product master. Similarly, I feel that Proficy is very good in customer master, but they still need to do [00:26:00] more on the product master side.

So you will see, these vendors, some of them are, Good and one domain. Some of them are, balancing the domains. But yeah, it will, as I already explained, so it will differ from requirements to requirement from the people's preference and what exactly you're looking for.

And that's how they pick up technologies. But overall, in terms of that, how MDM is rated professor is definitely one of the top tools in the industry.

Mike: And definitely, I would say that if you're in the Azure ecosystem, Yeah, they are. They are the best tool, right? If you are an Azure deep integration into Azure, they were built on Azure.

I, I know that now they're cloud agnostic. I'm not sure if they have the same depth across all clouds. But I know that they were moving very quickly and some of the data cataloging tools that Microsoft is built out with. There's almost a seamless integration, which is definitely one of the highlights,

Rohit Singh Verma: especially the purview integrations with purview.

Yeah, absolutely. ~ ~They're too smooth. And you can see that in their marketing also that they know that, they're built [00:27:00] on as your platform and similar thing for per view also. So the couple coupling, the integration is very smooth. That definitely give them edge that apart from MDM, they're able to do data governance as well.

Chris Detzel: I think that, if you have something that can integrate into the microsoft ecosystem, prophecy ken, you've got a leg up in those companies that are old school microsoft shops because that's all they use is microsoft Everything, and I've been at companies like, let's just call them old school like companies because you know They're embedded with microsoft tools and everything else and they want their whole ecosystem to be Microsoft including azure and everything else and so i'm not saying that sometimes they might use like aws and Azure, but you're golden and i'm sure they're all you know going all in on those kind of customers, right?

Rohit Singh Verma: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's like this if I talk about the next company, one of the famous company. It's basically originated from Informatica. The founder were earlier Informatica. [00:28:00] But now you know, they made standalone tool and it's really doing good in the market, especially if you talk about the offerings and their pharma and life senses domain.

It's too good. The name of the tool is relative. Relative is again a very good sound technology. Very strong offering on the customer master. I know that you guys can relate with the LTO. So definitely in terms of rating and rankings, LTO falls in top 10 and a very strong in the entity resolution, data quality, integration, good pass architecture.

I think they were one of the first tools who were there completely on the cloud and that they got really good leverage in the market because of the cloud offering. They really pushed Informatica to come on clouds because they were beating them hands down. When there was a cloud MDM requirement, but yes, I feel still feel that they need to work on their product master strategy Not there still they're majorly there on the customer master So pimp strategy product master is something where they can definitely, improve and apart from that I feel that they can probably you know have some data governance capabilities [00:29:00] as well Although they have but still I feel that these are some of the caveats where they can I'm, very interested to know chris and michael about your thoughts on that here

Mike: Yeah, I don't want to be too biased here, right?

As Chris and I were both employees of Reltio and we love Reltio, right? It's a great product.

Chris Detzel: Yeah.

Mike: I will say that, pharma and life sciences, we are a dominant player. That's no, no mystery for anyone. Biggest advantages of the product. We're able to move relatively fast being a cloud native solution.

I would say, even though we are deployed across all clouds, our strength and kind of, I would say, our anchor weight is probably AWS. But that being said, one of the things that I loved working in Reltio compared to a lot of the other master data management providers that I had seen and worked with was the speed of deployments.

We were able to get things up and running quickly, ~ ~I agree with you entirely. There's a lot of more complex dynamic hierarchies where We can do it, some of these other products that have been doing it for 40 years, right? They have a lot [00:30:00] more built out as far as depth and breadth.

And especially when you get into infrastructure that's built within a larger ecosystem, like Oracle, if you're bought into an Oracle ecosystem, you probably want to go with an Oracle product, right? And I think there's use cases to not, but at the same time same thing. If you're bought into an Azure ecosystem, we're a great alternative to prophecy, but prophecy is.

Baked into purview, right? There's some advantages there. So I don't know michael like

Chris Detzel: I disagree like I think you know, there's best in class, sas systems for example To build so i'm not just talking about mdm, but other platforms that you should go best of and i'm not like I'm not saying, Hey, you should be a whole entire Oracle shop or Salesforce shop or whatever.

I don't, I'm not buying into that anymore because they're just trying to, get you more into the stickiness and everything. So I don't necessarily buy that completely.

Mike: You're already there. That's all right. That's the thing. It's not, I think if you're evaluating as a net new company saying, am I going down an Oracle route?

Me [00:31:00] personally, I would avoid it because it's expensive. There's a lot of vendor lock in. However, in the Oracle system and you've spent millions of dollars, the rip and replace cost and that cost of ownership, you really have to balance that with what have you already invested in, right? How much are you running your ecosystem and business?

How much change management is that going to create right across your organization to replace a tool like that? It's it happens. And I think it's good when it does happen. ~ ~It's a totally different scope of investment. And as an organization, you have to have a lot more stakeholders aligned, but this is the right move for your organization.

I think it's beyond just data master data management at that point.

Chris Detzel: It's a good point and I would say just to add on to what michael is saying about realto I think you know, look, the things that you mentioned right is product mastering PEM and all those things it's all the things that they're talking about that they can do and they feel you know They can be the best in that as in a PEM, you know ~ ~I know it was on the roadmap at some point but not sure that is The other piece is they're looking at You [00:32:00] going into the more marketing type of aspects when you think of like CD, CDPs and things, to really show that they can do some of that.

Not sure that they want to be a CDP, that's the thinking around how can we think somewhat like that? Cause I believe the market. Is there for that? No, I so I think that you probably hit it right on from a you know How many customers do they actually have that, you know are mastering products, And those customers that are customers and want to master products I could tell you For sure want to use relto to do that but the PEM is a big opportunity for them.

One client told me he goes, you know Maybe you should partner with the PEM or something like that rather than build your own or so who knows what they're going to try to do, but I think there's opportunity in that area for sure

Rohit Singh Verma: Yeah, definitely. They can take a leave from Informatica.

Look, they purchased Healer. They did not make it. So probably if Reltio is originated from Informatica, they can do something like that. Purchase somebody else's PIM strategy. I think that will be a very good [00:33:00] opportunity for them.

Mike: But yeah very simple. Just to wrap up with Reltio, and sorry, I know that we're both going to have a lot of feelings about this one.

Yeah, we have

Chris Detzel: a lot of feelings. I would say

Mike: that I joined Reltio because I did think that they were one of the best companies out there. And one of the reasons that I joined, strengths and weaknesses aside, is their ability to adapt quickly, they move fast in the market, and that's part of Manish's founding principles is that they're able to do things much faster because they are cloud native and agile.

So I, I like them a lot. I wish them the best and to me, they're always gonna be my number one. So I have a lot of bias here. . ,

Rohit Singh Verma: absolutely. Like I, as I already told you, there is no number one, number 10. It's completely different from perception and also the requirement, but yeah, among the, I think Rohe that I like.

Chris Detzel: Sorry, but one thing that I like that prophecy did not to But is they hired and they just now promoted him to a cdo, right? Malcolm hawker like no, I think that whenever he gets on to podcast or whenever he gets on to speak or [00:34:00] Talks to cdos and he's their face in their The voice right and he doesn't even really talk about prophecy too much But he's prophecy is now starting to be seen as this thought leader And and he's getting out there in the market to really show some of that.

I like that it's you know marketing amazingness, and so I absolutely love what they're doing around that kind of stuff. I don't know any other company doing that I just don't.

Rohit Singh Verma: I think that's probably that's why, professor is taking leaps and bounds ahead from the others because of much credit goes to Michael Hawker, because the experience that he has in Gartner.

And now he is showing that experience to us, the viewers and customers. It really matters because, use, use whatever you start believing it. And ultimately it creates a perception in your mind. And that's how, people, everybody thinks. So I think, They're doing really good in terms of their marketing and hats to Michael for that.

Chris Detzel: Perfect. All right. All right. Let's get the next one.

Rohit Singh Verma: Yeah. So next tool [00:35:00] again. I would say, they're one of the top tools and especially when you talk about Gartner Magic Quadrant or Forrester reports, you will definitely find the mention of this particular tool. The name of the tool is Atacama MDM and again, a very strong offering and customer master.

Although they claim they have a multi domain MDM, but still I would say majorly they're doing the customer master They are very sound in reference data management leader in data governance leader in data quality And they now also have a full fledged artificial intelligence based deduplication Very good tool and definitely one of the top tools.

But yeah again from the caveat side, I would say there again They have to work on their product master strategy The SI network is not that great. Honestly, you know if I You Look for resources in the market. I really get, challenged because there are no resources available in the market who can do at a comma development.

So that's there. There's something which they need to work and also they need to work. They need to work on the regional marketing, as I already explained, that there is a huge boom right now of MDM in Middle East and Saudi, [00:36:00] but Atacama name is not there, like how informatic as Frederick Ross. So yeah, these are the final things which Atacama needs to do, but from the marketing point of view, definitely they are doing good.

They are there in the Gartner and Forrester, so you know, they have done the 80 percent of the marketing.

Chris Detzel: When you say marketing, is it just, Hey, they're in the magic quadrant and things like that? Or do you mean other things too?

Rohit Singh Verma: Right now, when you talk about customers, the first thing they look before taking a decision is the partner magic.

It has a huge value, honestly. So if you're there in that magic quadrant, then definitely it plays a key role. And definitely in order to come to the magic quadrant you definitely have to. Showcase your technology. You have to be very good. And of course, it's a combination of technology plus marketing efforts, but that's why I see, that's why I say, if you're there in magic quadrant, you're 80 percent of the marketing is already done because people are looking at that report.

That is a very neutral report or something which is reliable and any customer who's new into this segment, this pick up the [00:37:00] MDM magic quadrant, which is now unfortunately retired by Gartner, but still they do their keep doing the analysis dimension. In their research. ~ ~Yeah. Yeah. Forrester is still doing, Forrester is still doing the MDM that analysis.

So I think if you find mention of that tool repeatedly every year, then you start believing that, this tool has some capability. But I'm very surprised when I look at the market, because there are many times we are doing implementation in this product. And if you're looking for a developer Feeling challenged.

I don't find any developer for Atacama. So that's the, probably they need to work more on the SI network. And if they can train more resources, then it will be great.

Chris Detzel: It's going to build out that partner network to, to get that going. By the way, if you're a good AR person, that's the people really building those relationships with the Gartners and Foresters and whoever else from an MDM standpoint, so marketing helps drive that.

But A lot of times ar has its own separate communications area that they're [00:38:00] on from my I've been forced to research and all these other things. So ~ ~that's good marketing ish communications But the ar person is I think key and you need to invest in that in a big way So

Mike: you have to look at the roots too Of a company like Atacama, they started as a data quality tool, at least that's my understanding. And so coming into it and you see it in their product, like they have amazing. I think their UI is great. It's clean. It's modern, they've got bright colors, all the things that a lot of the classic MDMs kind of lack, but they're still only, they're all still like targeting a small market within master data management. And I really, to your point. I think that their mastering capabilities and governance and SI integrations, they're lacking. Because they're a lot more lightweight. So maybe they're better for a smaller company.

I can't see any larger company going deep with Atacama to date unless they're just looking at really that customer master at this point.

Rohit Singh Verma: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's so I agree with both of [00:39:00] you. And that's what we also feel and summarize, that Atacama is definitely a top two, but there are a few things, few areas where they need to work.

It's as we spoke about, especially then there is a network because honestly, what happens, I'll tell you the live example I was working for a particular customer and initially they said, we are looking for Atacama because we need both MDM and data governance. If we can get it from a single product, then why not?

When we started doing implementations. If we felt that there are no resources available, we'll have to get a resource from Atacama. Literally, they will train your resources and then you work them with them closely. So what ultimately happens in a size mind when the next project comes, they start pushing other products, informatica, or any other product or proficiency relative because.

Yeah, the resources availability is easy. Ultimately, if I'm an SI, I need to put my resources to get my money. So it's very important that if sources are available, easily available in market, then you get an [00:40:00] extra push from the SI that, you know, Hey, then if your requirement is this, then go for this particular technology.

If there is neck to neck competition, if resources are not there in some particular tool, then I'm obviously going to push. Other technology, because ultimately I need to back the project. I need to deliver it. So that's very important.

Chris Detzel: That's well said. Said. Yeah, I think partner network is the key for them.

I remember when ~ ~I just think that, for an MDM, and you want to get more recognized, you have to have, a huge team. Great partner ecosystem because they're the ones implementing the product, and they're the ones telling other, leaders and data people about the product.

And if you don't have that, then you're just always gonna be small. And,

Rohit Singh Verma: absolutely let's just move to the next tool again. It's a very sound tool. The interface is fantastic, and I've seen the adaptation of this technology by many customers. It's a brilliant tool. The name of the tool is Tipco EBX.

Earlier it was famous as ABX lives. Now they have migrated to CBX six, but again, a fantastic tool, great [00:41:00] capabilities, but yeah, there are some areas where they need to also work. But if I talk about this trend, especially when you talk about their dashboarding and reporting, it's fantastic. And the multi domain capabilities are also there.

The integration with ETL and the strong hierarchy management, I think that they're touching all those. points which should be there in any particular tool. And also I did implementation with them. They sit very closely in Salesforce, inside of Salesforce. So let's say if you're doing a deduplication, right at the entry point, they're there.

So you don't have to actually hit the MDM to find the duplicates at the entry point where you actually are generating record in Salesforce. You can do a deduplication. So that was a very powerful case study, which I did with ABX really rate them very high. But yeah, again, their modest marketing budget is something which they really need to take care of that because not many people are known about EVX, the capability, the kind of tool they have, but the kind of marketing that do, I feel there is a gap.

And again, as SI channel, it needs to be invested, needs to be very strongly networked. [00:42:00] And apart from that, again, They don't have a presence in the Middle East, as I explained, so that's, these are the areas where, you know, most of the tools need to work. But if I talk about TIBCO, a very good tool, but little modest in their marketing.

Any thoughts, ~ ~Michael and Chris?

Mike: Yeah, I think, TIBCO. They've been around since, what is it? Like the late nineties. Is that right? ~ ~I always look at them as, to me, you hit the nail on the head. I think that they need really a branding and marketing refresh on their company. When I was digging into companies, the EBX model, it sounds like they have a ton in governance and GDPR and CCPA work.

I think they also have a PIM product as well. Is that right? And some pretty robust data hierarchy management. ~ ~But to me, the biggest thing that I always thought is, it doesn't strike me as a shiny object. And I think that's what a lot of people are running towards when they see master data management is they want next generation technologies.

Tipco has a lot of that. I don't think they do a great job marketing it.

Chris Detzel: You wonder like these [00:43:00] big companies like that, you know They just steer. Yeah, we have an mdm tool, and then move on, and you wonder is that kind of and maybe it's because the implementations that i've mentioned at the you know before Just don't work out a lot and they're like maybe we should move away or I'm not saying they are I don't know, but you know if you're not marketing it heavily, why not?

Is it just you know good enough and they just say hey, The folks that use tipco in a big way, it's just this add on thing That's probably expensive, we have it You know, I don't know

Rohit Singh Verma: Yeah, absolutely. If you remember, they have actually this EX five was not originally a Tipco product.

It was orchestra networks, which was having this product, and they were there in Leader Magic Quadrant repeatedly, so if it until the time was with orchestra, they were in good marketing. The moment it came to tip. The kind of name which you should see from TIBCO, that is not there. So I feel that the product capability they have, they've taken a great product from Orchestra.

But I think that name still needs to be, more [00:44:00] nurtured, more marketed. So those are the things if they can do, and I believe that, they can be among the top selling products. Interesting. Okay. Great. The next in line is one of the oldest product of MDM. Earlier it was, always net to net with Informatica, whether either they are implementing or Informatica is implementing.

Hardly, anything is separation. But in last 10 years, I've seen this product is going little down, but still among the top 10, the product name is IBM Infosphere MDM. Very good, powerful tool. But very complex. Honestly, the kind of implementation and the time you take, it's a little longer.

And also the interface requires a lot of coding. And that's where I feel that there is a downside in the market. But overall, the product is fantastic, especially when you talk about multi domain capabilities, they were the initial MDM players. They had the initiate MDM, MDS, PIM, MDM, the complete MDM ecosystem they have.

And very strong offering in the real time probabilistic [00:45:00] matching. So they were the one who actually started that real time matching earlier, but now, since everybody's almost doing it right now, so there is no much difference differentiators left, but yes, one of the old technologies, the market is very it's a very well known market.

People understand that what are the capabilities of IBM Infosphere MDM, but yeah, in terms of a caveat, I would say. But that the market momentum is little slowing down for them. I don't know what is the exact reason Uh, they need to be more vocal about the recent technology They can probably you know do more things in the ai space Or maybe you know make their code little easy, especially Now people are going towards no code low code So those are the things if they can do probably, you know again, they can be there in the top race But yeah, it's a very good tool in terms of usage It Especially in the public sectors and finance, financial sector, people are still using IBM MDM.

Any thoughts, Michael, Chris?

Mike: Yeah, look, IBM is such [00:46:00] a massive company. I think it's just one of these challenges is that products get lost in a larger ecosystem and don't get the recognition that they need. I know a couple people that work Or have worked at IBM's MDM space, they do almost everything.

That's the funny thing. They do, they have so many capabilities and if you're willing to go deep, if you have technical resources, you can build a really elaborate system. But unfortunately, I don't think they also do a great job marketing similar to TIBCO. I don't think that they're promoting their integrations with their other services like Watson and the capabilities that they have when you start building multiple things within their ecosystem.

And for that reason alone, I think that, it's another one of these products where I think big, really big and more In line with IBM's growth cycle, if you're a customer who's used IBM services, if you've gone through that ecosystem for the past decade, it may be a good option.

But my personal perspective is aligned with you is that I don't think they've done a good [00:47:00] job promoting their services. And from what I've seen, it seems like they're slowing down a bit compared to some of the competitors.

Chris Detzel: So I've spoken to, partners that just worked on IBM MDM and they're steering away or that's what they said.

They're steering away from that and going and learning other MDM platforms because in their mind, IBM's one, not innovating on that. And then two is I heard that they're just trying to get away from that product, and I don't know if things have changed or whatever. I would definitely be thinking long and hard, as a, data person if you're in an organization of do we go with IBM or just ask a lot of questions to the salespeople, What does this look like in the future?

So I you know, that's what I've heard and even just from hardcore partners doing ibm implementations. That's all I did now are moving away to learn other mdm platforms to integrate into those so

Rohit Singh Verma: Correct. Absolutely. That's the correct assessment. But since they already have a large [00:48:00] customer base still, so they are doing good business in MDM.

But yeah, they need to do well, or if they're totally focused about MDM technology still, then there are a few areas where they need to work to be among their Products which are there in the running right now, but still I would rate them in top 10

Chris Detzel: Sorry, i'll say this and we can go but i've seen campaigns, you know of other mdm vendors doing like a rip and replace Hey, you have ibm, you're looking for another vendor come and get us, and that kind of stuff you know because they thought for sure that ibm is you know losing ground I don't know how true that is, but

Rohit Singh Verma: Yeah, it is true.

It is true. The momentum is definitely not there. Like it was there earlier, probably 10 years back. And similarly for our next product also, I would also rate them in the IBM category. Again, a very big name, last 10 years, 10 years back probably, and I would rate this tool among the top three, but right now, again, the market momentum is going, but still you will find the name in the manufacturing world because wherever you see the SAP technologies coming, [00:49:00] so SAP MDM.

Was, one of their preferred vendor, but again, they're actually confusing people by having You know, different kind of offering. They have a SAP MDG, SAP NWMDM, then SAP MDS. And so there are different names they have given to their product, which is actually, confusing people, because when I'm talking to customers, they come and ask me that which MDM tool of SAP I should go, whether I should go for SAP MDG or MDM or MDS, what exactly is it?

It really basically it is, they're not simplifying it. So it's very important that as a marketer if you're doing MDM marketing, that make things easy so that, customers can easily understand, and apart from that that from the two point of view, I think they have an excellent tool.

They are a multi entity MDM. They do all, product customer, but majorly famous in the supply chain, especially when you are, especially you're using SAP HANA system or SAP systems. Then it becomes easy that if you have a SAP MDM tool in place.

Mike: Yeah, SAP for HANA, I think, it has dominance [00:50:00] in manufacturing, in Department of Defense, a lot of these ecosystems that are massively complex.

And also I would say siloed in their self, right? So you're spending across. Maybe a hundred different businesses that all have data systems that need integration to me, even as somebody who is a data professional SAP has always been something where I feel like you need a PhD, just in that product to be able to understand how to truly embed.

across the ecosystem, right? It is complicated and there's a lot to it. I think I would tend to disagree with you a little bit on the Delta between them and IBM. I think that SAP is just deeply rooted in verticals that are not as popular as what the Informatica and the Reltio is going through. I think it's just a lot more gaps in specific verticals and they have really no interest in chasing more of the hype cycle.

Because they have just so many products, their product naming conventions are awful. That's another thing I would say is it is confusing to [00:51:00] even find stuff on their website, to find documentation community portal, I think was okay, but I've had a couple of integrations where I've had to dig into SAP and I had trouble, like I had trouble finding the right information.

I feel like the experts in the field are off at very large organizations. And so finding the right. ~ ~SIs or solution partners to help work with you is a challenge.

Rohit Singh Verma: It doesn't absolutely agree with you. Chris your thoughts

Chris Detzel: I don't really have any on this, I think that One thing that came to my mind.

It sounds like they're probably really good with government kind of Companies that you know, you have to get highly certified and I forgot what it's called to be able to even Sell an mdm into a government and you're seeing like these sas companies Is ~ ~They're like, yeah, it's too long. We're not going to do that.

We know and you think that Selling into a government entity. I mean could be very profitable, but it could take you three years just to get in You know what? So I think that there's opportunity there for other companies to go after for [00:52:00] sure I mean i've seen it at conferences and the government, you know come to Boots say hey, we would love to look at realto.

Are you guys certified in this? I forgot what the thing is, but no I think that they'll always have business there until these other mdm vendors get certified and then start going after that. That's a manufacturing is always a you know it's a tough place to get into if it's all it's a huge relationship based Kind of area, right?

So that's all I have to say about that I think you know if you want to get into the government type stuff You got to get certified and go through all that, the hoops that you have to do, you know For an mdm to even become a possibility for your company. It sounds like they have it

Mike: Honestly, I would pair them more with an oracle Than anyone else just because like it's one of these platforms that you buy into the system ~ ~And sure.

If you've got a huge plethora of on prem and hybrid cloud systems, it's probably a better, solution or at least one that I would consider if [00:53:00] I was, looking for a vendor because they cover such a wide range and especially if you're looking, if you have legacy systems that's a really big kind of asterisk.

If you're in manufacturing, you don't have all your data in the cloud. If you're in financial services, you don't have all your data in the cloud. So, you have to find a solution that's more flexible and it might not all be cutting edge. It might be a lot of its batch and legacy, maybe weekly or monthly batch data processing.

So ~ ~I think that's where it really comes in and is valuable. The same thing with Oracle is you have a system that you've bought into that's going to help support you as a slower moving technology arm to a larger business. What's

Chris Detzel: so funny about it is you're starting to see. Customers, that were, Oh we all have to go SAS.

We have to use SAS and everything else. And then now they're like we want SAS, but we need a private cloud. Like you're starting to see that with with some of these businesses now, because they want to completely privatize some of their data. So anyways.

Rohit Singh Verma: Yeah, absolutely correct.

Let's move on to our next product. [00:54:00] Very strong offering in BIM site. You would've, you must have heard their name many times. Very famous in retail and Petrocom, petrochemical especially, they have great expertise in there. And they were the one who were initially, well known in the product master space.

Earlier it was called as River Sand, but now they have been acquisition, they have been taken over by Syngo. So now this product is called as Cindy go with this position was in probably an year, 2021, if I remember, but yeah very good offering, but again we all, as we, cover strength and weakness, both.

So if I talk about that, some of the areas where they can probably improve is that they're from the customer masters. Space, they still need to do more because they are well known for the product master pin strategy But I feel that if you really want to qualify yourself as a multi domain mdm then probably, you know need to do a little bit more on the operational mdm for customer and party And apart from that I still feel that they are little under invested in marketing They're well known in northern america and europe, but especially in this middle east region.

You still need to [00:55:00] do more Because I still feel that there is so much scope for retail, life sciences, sports kind of industry in the Middle East. But these players are not known over there, and that's why Informatica is beating them. So that's my assessment for Syndico. What's your thought, Michael?

Chris Detzel: ~Can't hear you, Michael. ~

Mike: ~There we go. Sorry about that.~ I don't know a lot about Cyndigo. Honestly, I didn't work with them at time. To me, they were always RiverSend. I know that changed relatively recently. I remember them having a really strong foothold in the European market.

That was definitely something where I thought that was their dominance. We didn't see them come up as much as a vendor verticals that we were competing in, but, all in all, I, I remember them having incredibly strong PIM services, right? Master Data Management was not as involved, and they didn't come up in the vendor list frequently for us.

Rohit Singh Verma: Absolutely. ~Uh, ~moving on, and we have already covered nine. And now, in order to, Get into the number 10 slot or I would say in a top 10 slot. I had to really do a lot of study because there is a clutter in the market. And [00:56:00] I know that there are some fantastic tools.

So there is a tool called tomorrow's doing excellent. And the current space, there's a tool called crude and they're new, but they're very dynamic, they're doing excellent again. You'll find their presence in nano Gartner, magic quadrant and Forrester. And there is a old rules like a lighter is there.

And there's so many tools out there, even Oracle. Although it's going down right now, but still some of the people are using them. Samarki is very good tool on a European market, French markets, especially, but still if I have to just. Cover top 10. Then I had to see that if a tool has to be there in this category is to do be a multi domain should do more to get more points.

And I've seen this tool working and I've seen it very closely that you know what are the feature or core capabilities, how market is responding, what analysis speaking about and considering all that. I'm just fitting this tool as in among the top 10 is via with the sea. It's a very good tool. You will find the presence in the Gartner magic current rent and Forrester reports also It's a german company and they have very strong offerings in PIM.

Their [00:57:00] PIM is fantastic And apart from the PIM, they are also doing multi domain and the good thing about their tool is they have an integrated DAM You will not see many product master PIM tools, which have a very sound DAM Even informatica doesn't have a very strong capabilities on DAM Even stevo doesn't have but this tool has so that is why i'm giving them, little marks over there But very underinvested since it's a new tool.

So I'll not say much about the marketing because marketing also, requires number of years, number of time, but yes, that's one area that if they can do a lot of marketing and they can include their assigned network, they can improve. Their regional marketing, then definitely they have the capability to sell in this space.

Mike: What was the name of the company again? I'm sorry. I missed it when you first you cut out there for a second

Rohit Singh Verma: So that's again, you know the poor marketing I would say We are with the sea. It's the v i a m e d i c. You will find their presence in gartner and forester also We are with the sea It's a tool which is made in German Germany, and majorly a product master, but [00:58:00] multi dominant here.

Chris Detzel: Never heard of them. That's interesting. You said they're new? They're brand new?

Rohit Singh Verma: So again, more reasons that their marketing team should listen to this podcast and start putting more money in terms of their marketing efforts. Because it's, ~ ~yeah, absolutely. But it's a good tool. I have in terms of the feature wise, the capability wise tool is definitely there.

It can compete with the likes of Stevo for sure.

Mike: ~I'll stop. Sorry. Yeah, Michael. ~I was just gonna say, I've never heard of them before, so I can't comment. But again, I think once you, even if you're in the space, once you get below those top Tier players, it becomes a really, like there's hundreds of them, right?

And it's so challenging. I was talking to a company recently, FinCorp, they're looking to do MDM in the financial services space for the CFO, right? It's master data management for the CFO. There's so many verticals that start to emerge. And I think this is where it gets really interesting. We've talked about your top.

Nine companies that are recognized and known. And there's a lot more, I would say in that list even, but once you start to get into these more [00:59:00] specialized organizations, it becomes a more, a lot more unclear as to who is a winner and what are their strengths and what are their weaknesses. I started, I think you really start to see a lot of companies that are specializing in a specific vertical, which if you're a smaller company, that could be really advantageous.

And that's definitely something that it's been an interest to me as well. Personally is, MDM we've always talked about is this broad swooping solution for the entire organization and really to prevent silos right in large ecosystems. But in smaller companies, there's these that the problem transforms a bit where, you really need more specialization and the organization and management of your data than necessarily unifying that accessibility that you have in larger enterprises.

Rohit Singh Verma: Correct. Absolutely. That's what happens that, when you're talking about master data management specifically really, it's very important that first of all, you need to know exactly that. What are the pain points you are trying to address? What are the which particular domain you really want to hit?

If you're looking for, especially, multi domain your completely your way of thinking changes, your [01:00:00] requirement changes. And also what matters is that the kind of ~ ~as we spoke about the, you have to have a very good SI network. You need to have people who can implement that tool technology.

It should be faster. Earlier we used to take almost eight to nine months for doing MDM implementation, but with these some smart tools, we are finishing implementation in just two, three months. So that is the kind of. Speed market is picking up and with AI, I feel that, market is going to be super fast.

Tools are going to be super fast. So it's not going to be easy for some of the legacy MDM tools to compete in this space because some of the new companies are really challenging. As I spoke about Tamar included, they're fully AI. And they are really, competing, maybe the name is not that hard, but the product is fantastic.

Similarly, there's so many tools are there in this space. It's very tough to, them in top 10, even as you spoke about PIM core, again, a good tool. Similarly, PyLog is a very good tool. So there are so many tools are there in this market, but again, it completely depends. From requirement to [01:01:00] requirement that what exactly customer is looking and what definitely what matters is what SI is selling.

So SI role is extremely important in this space. That's why probably I would say, it's very important that all these MDM companies make a strong SI network so that the, because a customer is majorly talking to SI, SI will advise them that which particular MDM tool they should go for.

Although everybody, all the MDM tools will say we are number one, we are good because everybody wants to speak good about their product, but it is the consultant, it is the the neutral bodies, let's say people like Gartner, people like Forrester. Or any analyst who has worked on multiple tools or a very good SI who's a neutral, who has worked on this space from a long time, they will give them a right judgment that, as per your criteria, as per your budget, this is the tool you should go for.

So that's why it's very important that you invest in marketing and you also have a very good, strong SI network. Because in terms of technology, I think it's everybody's [01:02:00] neck to neck. MDM is not a rocket science anymore. Everybody knows what is MDM and how to build it. It is just. A matter that you how can you adopt quick the recent technologies like artificial intelligence and also how can you actually leverage your assigned network and also make sure that you people are people should know about your name.

It's very important to do the marketing.

Mike: Yeah, and honestly, I think that the biggest piece if you're a CDO or a CIO trying to look in words and understand what's right for your business. It's really comes down to assessing your needs as a company, right? There is no best solution. The budget is irrelevant really in this decision making process, I think for me, if I was to talk to anybody about this, it's about what talent do you have internally?

How much change is going to be required based on the existing services that you've already integrated into your product and how difficult is that lift going to be to bring something together? And I'd say the biggest product bigger than Informatica, bigger than Prophecy or Reltio that we [01:03:00] haven't talked about today is the build your own.

And I think that's one of the, one of the places that nobody really goes to is that a lot of people, when they do this assessment, they start building their own tool sometimes that works out great. If you've got just engineers running your organization, but if you're a large complicated system, evaluate the managed services, take time to go through at least five of these products and see, is there a faster, more reliable, Time permitting solution that's going to prevent you from having to do all of the upkeep and maintenance required in running your own MDM if you build internally.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, I've heard that a lot is, the number one of the top competitors is to build your own. That's a top competitor of these MDMs. ~ ~Build your

Rohit Singh Verma: own. I have also made my own in one of the companies, I go with you. So there was a company who said that I want to build on my own. So we really had to spend almost six months to make tool for them.

Although they use it as a [01:04:00] accelerator form, they did not name it as proper. Okay. But yes I agree with you. Most of the time people want to build on their own and it's again, one of the top 10 company does for sure.

Mike: I remember building my own MDM, my own hybrid MDM and thinking I was the hottest shit.

Like I thought I would move so fast. It was almost zero money. Worked amazing, right? I built it for my features as a as an innovation and data team AI team And then all of a sudden marketing started connecting into it and then sales started connecting into it I said, hold on if this goes down how much liability am I taking on as this engineering team that should not be running this centralized core system and it became A bloody nightmare because I now was spending 80 percent of my time guaranteeing that the system didn't go down versus focusing on the innovation, focus, focusing on the net new build outs that I really should have been spending my time on.

So I think everyone goes through that at some point in their career is as an engineer, especially, an [01:05:00] individual contributor, you look at it, you say we could build that. But you don't realize it's ridiculous. Yeah, I

Chris Detzel: still hear it today. And I'm like there's companies that do this, kind of stuff, not just MDM, but any other, I've mentioned this before I'm not saying you shouldn't ever build your own for something small, let's go with best and breed, let's just do that, why build your own like that? That should be a red flag every single time in my opinion. Absolutely I mean

Rohit Singh Verma: anything these people are doing so much work in their research and give them a chance give them At least one go that you know, they can solve your problems

Chris Detzel: Exactly.

Rohit Singh Verma: Yep.

Chris Detzel: So right. This has been amazing.

This was in depth. Your expertise really did shine and I really appreciate this analysis. So what we'll do is we'll be pushing this out to Obviously the all the podcast sites will push it out to our website. We'll probably even push out a blog with roheats great information.

We'll get the powerpoint so folks can see it And I'm actually interested in seeing this powerpoint. I haven't seen it yet. Thanks everyone for [01:06:00] tuning in. That's all before you

Mike: before we wrap things up. I just want to make one more statement out there to any mdm It's listening to this that we didn't mention Or those that maybe we did who have some disagreements about what we said.

I know we made some broad swooping statements Reach out to us, comment on our website We'll put in some corrections if you've got if you have different disagreeing opinions, but I think that You It's important to have these discussions, there is no right answer. And again, this is just our perspectives as we come in and have used these products over the course of the past decade, right?

Chris Detzel: Yeah. And,

Rohit Singh Verma: It's completely our opinion and it completely can differ from, people to people, but that's based on our analysis, but there is no right or wrong. There is no good or bad. It is just our assessment, but clearly our opinion, nothing else.

Chris Detzel: Yeah, the gardeners have an opinion and the foresters have an opinion and you know You're an expert in this area and worked with all these folks or most of them, right?

So I think your opinion is just as valid, and a person that actually does the work That's the opinion in my [01:07:00] opinion But we're certainly open to having guests on from these companies if they want to go in depth about Their mdm product and things like that. Michael and I would love to talk to you guys more All right, so i'm going to wrap up now.

Thanks everyone for tuning in You Please write and review us. That's how we get, into the systems there and people will see us more, but I'm Chris Dutzell and

Mike: I'm Michael Burke. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks everyone. ~ ~